Tag: 8th edition

On Wednesday my book arrived from England.  It was packaged in a box which protected the corners of the book (thank goodness because the box was pretty bashed up, the book was in good condition though) and that was in turn in a big blue airmail sack with a cable tie around it.  The sort of sack you get coal delivered in, they type you could fit both of my children and the dog and still have room to tie it shut…. hmmm.  Anyway opened it up (since I was sick that day) and the boys and I started leafing through it.  Took over half an hour just leafing through the pages.

So having read most of the rules now, most of the rumours are true.  There are a few that were just wrong or misinterpretations but most of those were easily seen through anyway.  Also the armybook errata/faq’s have been updated now on the gw site for 8th edition.

It is a very nice book.  It is full of full colour spreads, heaps of pictures of every armies figures, background, rules, hobbycraft.  There are also many many diagrams of how the rules work in certain situations, which is really helpful.  It’s quite clear that they (GW) have taken a lot from previous rulebooks, found what works and have tried to write something that is as unambiguous and clear as possible.  It’s a great rulebook and a fantastic warhammer resource.  It’s also quite large.

It will be interesting to play I think.  It still warhammer but the rule changes that they have made will mean things won’t play quite as they did, or at least good units aren’t so great and crap units are kinda good.

Just looking at my wood elves for example.  On the bad side of the ledger, there is no mention of skirmishers having 360 degree vision now and they must be spaced out.  Well they always were supposed to be spaced out but people just kinda loosely did it and crammed in more to an area than there really should have been.  Anyway it seems not a big deal but I think it’s going to have a bit of an impact on how they’re used and given wardancers and dryads are skirmishes and the main fighting units in at least my woodie armies….  The other thing that is a bit of a blow to the woodelves is the stepping up rules.  When you’re as tough a 1-ply budget toilet paper and have no real armour to speak of your defence lies in killing everything so it can’t fight back.  With no defense and nothing in the way of combat resolution (ranks, standards and outnumbering which is gone now) a protracted battle is not going to go in favour of the woodies.  However unless you can completely wipe out a unit because of the stepping up rule they will always attack back.  With what will be a predilection toward bigger units because of the advantages you gain (horde and what not) it’s really unlikely a woodelf unit is going to be able to put away such a unit even with tag team help from it’s comrades.

So all of that kinda sucks for the woodelves and is going to make close combat very dicey business, however it’s not all bad.  On the plus side we have missile weapons firing in two ranks (no longer do I need those hills), and volley firing for bows (two ranks plus half of each successive rank if you don’t move).  Archers are going to be nasty (of course marching can be done more easily and charging can potentially be greater so maybe opportunities to shoot won’t be as many).  Treekin are monstrous infantry so can rank up in threes and get stomp attacks.  Fast cav and flying cav are still awesome (bought back the vanguard rule for fast cave which elf light cav used to get as a free move at the start of the game).  The initiative rules for determining who goes first in combat obviously favour high initiative elves.  Also the carefully crafted magic item list for the woodelves where every fantastic combo is like 5pts more than you can spend or can’t be given to that character or can’t be used in conjuction with that item.  Or even for example where all the good ward saves have a downside to them and there is no heavy armour.  Well that all goes out the window with the common magic item list.  At last my woodies can have proper platemail and 4+ward saves with no downsides etc.  Of course this is true for all the armies, and from what I’ve seen more recent army books haven’t been so careful with the magic item lists as they were with the wood elves, so I guess it’s just making things more fair, by dragging everything down lol.

Oh yes and the bonus for charging (aside from engaging the enemy) is that you get +1 to combat resolution.

And woods, previously the friends to woodelves.  No longer block line of sight no matter how deep (soft cover +1 penalty to shooting and dangerous terrain to a number of things like cavalry moving at speed).  Whatsmore with the mysterious forests rule they’re as likely to kill woodelf troops as protect them.  About 50/50 chance.  Don’t know where I’m going to place those waywatchers now.

Ok for Martin’s benefit, and well because it’s interesting, rather than linking to bell of souls or warseer I’ve just copied and pasted.

Rumors collated by Grimstonefire

More reliable rumours

[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
[*]Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
[*]Crush attack for larger creatures
[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks.
[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
[*]All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
[*]All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
[*]Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
500+ pages (probably 528)
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th

There will be a “General’s” Edition as well as a “Gunner’s” Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. “General’s Edition” is supported with a white linnen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes…

Other rumours (and description of above)

These are all listed in no particular order.

ARMY SELECTION

[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
This is looking more like 25% max characters, 25% min core, 25% max special and 25% max rare (anonymous source, but trustworthy ) The 25% characters includes mounts.

Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.

[*]Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
[*]There *may* be something to prevent spamming…
[*]There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.

MAGIC

NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories


Edit: I’ve sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from an anonymous (trustworthy) source:

[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. – Avian
(edit: This could be 1 PD for lvl 1/2 and 2 PD for lvl 3/4).
Example: 2D6 roll gives you 3 and 6. You have 1 level 2 and 1 level 4. Power dice =9+1+2 = 12

[*]Giving irresistible force a downside
[*]Double 6 = a miscast
[*]Making miscasts much more devastating.
[*]Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn’t use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
[*]All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell.
[*]Spells can be chosen, not rolled for.

And the other rumours:

[*]There’s no limit to the number of dice used to cast a spell, by any level of caster.
[*]If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts
[*]Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit – possibly speculation)
[*]Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells)
[*]A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters.
[*]If a wizard fail to cast a spell he can’t cast other spells in the same phase.

COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Fighting in 2 ranks

[*]Units fight in 2 ranks all the time, with their full quota of attacks, and with any special rules they have.
[*]Spears may be +1 rank as normal.
[*]Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
[*]Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
[*]This is the same regardless of which side they are attacked on.

Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people

[*]Casualties are strictly removed from the back.
Horde – Still no closer to nailing this one down

Fight in 3 ranks if 10+ wide (4 with spears). – Avian.
OR
Some benefit to fighting in large units, may automatically become stubborn beyond a certain unit size. – Harry – (edit) seemingly confirmed from another source).

Another edit: Seems this Horde rule may work like this:
If the unit is 10+ wide and 5 ranks deep (50+ models) the front 2 ranks may all fight, regardless of whether they are in base contact.

[*]Now it would explain how people have got up to 5 ranks in combat (2 front, Spears = 3, Citizen levy = 4, Horde = 5). At this stage just another rumour, but a little closer perhaps to the truth.

Rank bonuses

[*]Unchanged apparently.
One Save to ruin them all!

[*]Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!
40mm models

[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).
Crush them!

[*]Additional stomp/crush attacks for big infantry (ogres, trolls, etc) to represent them trampling lesser races underfoot. Bigger bonus for large creatures like giants. These are not impact hits. (edit: these could be overrun hits)
Armour Save Modifiers

[*]Fewer armour save modifiers
Striking in Initiative order

[*]Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed). Chargers do not get a bonus apparently
Chariots

[*]S7 autokill is gone. (edit: possibly not speculation)

MOVEMENT

Standard Movement

[*]Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform). Command models will have some role to play in giving free manoeuvre as you move (Musician bonus similar to Ancient Battles?).
Charging.

[*]An added ‘bonus’ of getting an ‘extra’ +D6 or +D3 inches of movement to your Movement range (presumably the D6 or D3 decided by the category of warrior; infantry/cavalry/ogre sized).
Edit; rumoured to be:

Movement equal to or less than 6 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + D6

Movement equal to or more than 7 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + 2D6
Heavy cavalry

[*]- Heavy cavalry, defined as any cavalry with a 2+ or better save, cannot march. They can double their move when charging as normal, but they are not allowed to make a March move.
– “Medium and Fast cavalry remain the same”.

SHOOTING

Armour Save Modifiers

[*]As it happens to be the same rumour; fewer armour save modifiers.
Fire in 2 ranks as standard.

[*]Missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). – Harry & someone else. Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.

PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES

Fear and Terror

[*]This may be

Fear +1 to Combat resolution
Terror +2 to Combat resolution

[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
[*]Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
[*]Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).

Killing Blow

[*]Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized) (edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right)
Always Strike First

[*]Models with great weapons will always strike last, regardless of ASF. There is supposedly a change to the ASF rule to compensate HE a bit, not sure what yet.

OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS

[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.

[*]15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required Core units to capture objectives. Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

[*]Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.

[*]A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles

Terrain

[*]Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult and encompass more things (presumably more than just affecting movement).
[*]D6+4 cumpulsory terrain.
[*]Terrain will not affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
[*]Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood…).